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simplegeek

a.k.a. Chris Anderson

Tainting Avalon

Ah, Ryan doesn't like our decision to redist Avalon downlevel (probably the first person I've heard of who doesn't like it)...

He makes four points, from what I can see:

  1. Xamlon provides Avalon's value on XP
  2. The WinFX redist will be 100MB-200MB
  3. Avalon on XP is going to have massive technical problems
  4. Avalon on XP means big Avalon feature cuts

Let's tackle these one at a time...

Avalon and Xamlon

Xamlon, from what I can tell, seems to be a XML to C#/VB/etc compiler. It is mostly a clone of the XAML syntax, and supports binding to WinForms classes. My appologies if I don't understand it enough. An XML dialect for describing UI is only one aspect of Avalon. Avalon represents an entirely new display system, from a new font engine (including support for new OpenType features), animation engine (with hardware acceleration), control library (with composition), application model (including rich browser integration), and more.

Avalon's tenets are "Best of the Web, Best of Win32", while the declarative definition of UI is definetely one of the "Best of the Web" parts, it's ridiculous to boil down 3 years of work from 300+ people to this one feature.

WinFX redist size

I'm amazed that Ryan knows the size of our redist - I don't yet. We are still working out the plans here, but at the moment I can't comment on how big I think the redist will be. Having fear over the "possible" redist size seems like a bad way to make decisions.

Avalon on XP technical problems

I'm still fairly suprised at Ryan's "knowledge" of our internal state, he says "Obviously, the technical problems are going to be far and wide". Yes, there are going to be technical challenges to overcome (robust hardware acceleration on the XP driver model, for example) but claiming that these are "far and wide" is again, quite a bit premature. I've worked with most of the teams on Avalon and we are identifying any potential issues with running on XP. We've identified some, but overall we are solid.

Joe Beda has a great post about some of the limitations...

Avalon feature cuts

I'm not sure why Ryan thinks that going to XP means feature cuts. When shipping a product the number of platforms you support is mostly a testing issue, it means a large matrix for running your tests against. Yes, there is a lot more surface area for developers to manage, but the presence or absence of a platform doesn't relate 1:1 with features. From our product planning standpoint, the reality of a hard date for Longhorn is more important. Now that we have a solid date, we can get much more realistic about features. I'm not saying that we aren't going to change the feature set (somewhat), but rather that the primary motivation, generally, is the date rather than the platform list.

 

As for Ryan's claim that "I can’t speak for anyone else, and I doubt you will see any criticism from within Microsoft because it is a career limiting move, but I will say that I am very disappointed."... give me a break. When I disagree with MS policy/decisions I'll say it. In this case I believe this is exactly the right thing to do for developers, consumers, and Microsoft.

09/01/2004 6:36 AM | #Longhorn

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